What would be your perfect class

J

Jeff L Headley

Well-known member
I would be interested in knowing what would be the perfect class for you. What are you interested in and could it be a class. My next question would be how long should the class be for. Weekend, one week or, three years, what would it be? Thanks, Jeff
 
My preference for classes is to have a large project split throughout a period of time. 3 day weekends work for me since I have to work and vacation days are few. But by splitting a project I can learn to make a leg one weekend, make the other 3 at home, next class learn the joinery, complete that at home, next class learn the next part, etc.

Week long classes are a little to intense for me, I feel like I need a break at some point. I also feel that most projects that can be done in a week I can do myself.

One example of a piece I would like to build is a bombe secretary, I can't think of any other way to have a class on it other than the method above. And something like that would probably take a few years. (and if your having this classs sign me up!)
 
Jeff - Regardless of what is made in the class, there are few classes available that focus on 18th century techniques and tools for joinery.  There are a lot of classes that focus on making a period representation of a particular form of furniture, be it dressing table, desk, or candlestand, but they generally focus on power tools, and the results are modern furniture in a period style, with perfectly smooth (and sometimes with a finish) primary, secondary, and tertiary surfaces.

The exception to the dearth of traditional methods and tools classes is Windsor chairmaking, but the same idea could be extended to a lot of other furniture forms.  I can't say for sure, but I think such classes would be very popular based on the interest in Adam Cherubini's column in Pop Woodworking, the huge backlog of orders at Clark and Williams, and the success of period sawmakers like the Wenzloffs.
 
The class you describe, Ttalma, sounds very much like the classes offered by Gene Landon and Bess Naylor at the Olde Mill in York, PA.  I'm currently taking a class in which we are making a secretary (similar to this http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/91704.html?mulR=360).  The "class" is composed of six three-day weekends spread over the course of two years.  So far, we've had two classes.  In the first class we covered construction of the lower desk (carcass, drawer blades, drawers, feet, etc.).  The second class was focused entirely on the interior gallery of the desk (dividers, small drawers, etc.).  You get the idea.  Each class focuses on a particular aspect of the piece.  I can typically get a lot done in the three day weekend, but always have lots of "homework" to do before the next class. 

I don't really have any other woodworking classes to compare it to, but I am very satisfied with how it is set up. I'm interested in more complex, challenging pieces that cannot be covered in one short class.  But I don't really have a solid block of time, or energy, to complete a complex piece in one long class.  The class would probably have to be a month long to complete this piecel.  The Olde Mill model is a great compromise. 

Another aspect of the Olde Mill classes that I appreciate is the emphasis on hand tools.  This is definitely NOT a powertool class.  While there is a bandsaw on site, the class is, otherwise, about as handtool-focused as you can get.
 
Perfect classes for me  would be constructing a Newport kneehole bureau or a secretary, or perhaps a Queen Anne chair.  Classes could certainly be consecutive three day weekends for the time needed to complete the project.

I would need to have classes located close to my Chicago area home in order to participate.

Jim Vojcek
 
ASwartz, I had the Olde Mill in mind when writing my comments. I have taken a few classes there and plan to take more. Unfortunatly my life got in the way this year or I would be taking classes this year.

Actually the only reason I haven't taken classes at other schools is because I've yet to find another that offers classes in this format. That, and I have two small children.

And when you go to your next class tell Bess Gene needs to teach another chair class!
 
Hello Jeff,
I haven’t replied to your question because I wanted to give it a little thought before giving my two cents worth. Having taken one of your classes I will be more qualified to give an answer or will be more biased, I’ll let you decide. Having read some of the replies I have to agree with some of the points and disagree with others. Here is my take. I under stand the though of having classes split in order to break it up and spread it over time, this allows only locals to attend due to the expense of traveling. I also believe that getting time off of work is possible; after all I don’t know anyone that decides today to take the class tomorrow. When it comes to case work, are you going to tie up some of your shop during the down time or are you going to have students haul the project back and forth with them?     
It is my belief that the week long class teaches you the one thing that spreading things out does not. The one thing that cannot be taught from a book and not from a video, the one thing that usually sets artisans apart from slop shops and that is patience. With today’s high speed, “I want it now” society, with the internet, cell phones, and air planes no one is learning any patience. With the week long classes you can learn how to take you time and make a quality piece vs. a pile of wood. Some will argue that spreading it out teaches more patience because of the breaks but walking away from the project dose not teach patience. Also part of the class is being able to ask you a question on what I am doing instead of waiting till I get back to the class only to forget what it was I wanted to ask.
The perfect class for me would for you to continue what you're doing but find some rich person that just would like to give me a scholarship to all your classes.
What ever you decide, I do plan on taking another class from you one way or the other. I just feel fortunate to be just down the road. John
 
I'm not sure I understand the point about patience. Whether it takes place in a week-long class, or a series of weekend classes, anyone who painstakingly builds a faithful reproduction of a classic piece of american period furniture has demonstrated far more patience than most. 

I think the point you may be trying to make, John, is that sometimes people demand "instant gratification" in the sense that they want to have a finished piece of furniture without investing the time and energy to develop the skills and knowledge necessary to create a quality piece of furniture, both in terms of design and craftsmanship.  That type of commitment is really inherent to the person and his values, not the type of class he chooses to take. 
 
I think there are two questions with two answers:    what's your perfect class, and what would be a great class you would actually sign up for??  I vote for any chair class, esp.  chippendale armchair...
 
Well everyone in the New England area make chairs totally different than the people from the south, so in my opinion a chair making class would be awesome with you and Mr. Hamilton.  I think the economy has people with their wallets bunched up  tight. So a 1 week course is I think ideal.  Yet,  I know a chair one week OUCH!, but hey why not! I think the chair needs to be simple yet complex at the same time.  It is also involves everyone leaving with a chair just about completed if you want them to come back and take some more courses. How about a shelf clock Federal Style very basic and fun project.  It is hard these days, so many people are trying teach all over the place.  Good Luck!!!!!

Freddy Roman
 
Jeff and all,
I'd attend  several classes on making a high style Federal Piece from Balto, Annapolis, or Charleston using the multi-weekend format, and I'd certainly go to Jeff's shop to learn to make a fancy card table or dressing table with inlay.

Another approach that I'd recommend, especially considering the travel costs these days, is the model we did with Al Breed before he had a school. We got 8 local guys who wanted to make a Newport Secretary, and rather than have 8 guys pay hotels, travel, ship wood, we got Al to come to us. Paying 1/8 of his travel was more economical and "green". It helped that one of the 8 had shop space. We brought as much as we needed to work on and got coached on the next phase. We spent about 18 months/12 weekend sessions. We followed the same model for a Newport chair, and the Bombe chest, which I think was 4 weekends/6 months. Knowing that another class was emminent is definitely motivational, especially if the goal is to actually finish a piece!

You might think its impossible to hire a traveling "teacher" these days but I think if a serious group is formed, gets materials, has a  project in mind, you could hire someone willing to travel and their wives might be glad to see them gone for a few weekends! Would that work for you Jeff?

Week-long classes seem most appropriate for smaller projects, technique classes, and retirees who don't worry about vacation time. Just my two cents worth.
John
 
Jeff,

Some general comments:

My own formal education in woodworking was via the public school system and was aligned to patternmaking, not furniture making. Over a succession of many semesters we were taken through the proper use of hand tools, primarily chisels and planes ( no sandpaper) and made a succession of "projects", none of which had much utility, but were aimed at teaching particular skills: planing a square edge, planing a flat, chamfering, mortises and tenons, drilling a long hole with a brace and bit, etc, etc. It seems to me that to teach woodworking of a period nature, emphasizing hand tools, you need to first teach people these fundamantals - the blocking and tackling of woodworking.  That is a far cry from teaching anyone how to make a particular piece of furniture, but without these skills, one will not succeed at playing the game. The world is full of people who try to start out just "making things" , and this often inevitably leads to disappointment, frustration, and moving on with little learned.  While I am not suggesting that you could sustain a class of fundamentals, I think there is an analogy.

An advanced class using very focused fundamantals; emphasis in developing the skills necessary to make a complex and substantial piece of furniture, but without making the entire piece. For example, you might teach the fundamentals of case furniture where student learned to make a cabriolet leg, turned and carved; how to make a single set of dovetails to join a case,  how to make a drawer, and how to perform a single particular decorative carving.  This could be supplemented by demonstration /lecture written material covering the variations as required for special circumstances. Possibly, the student might make a sample of components for a real piece of furniture to take home as a starting point for a homeproject, but I would try not to emphasize that - the goal is improving advanced skills to be applied generally, and the first try of any of the above projects in not likely to meet the standards of a final product for someone who truly learned along the way. 

This could be done a la carte, with a series of one day or weekend sessions, available also one per skill area, so that someone who wanted only a particular specialty, but was not interested in the entire  could partake.

I take a lot of continuing education courses ( not in woodworking) and it is my experience that each student is coming from a different background and experience mix, and it is hard to teach a lengthy single course that is well tuned to the needs of such diversity; in order to cover the needs of the less experienced, the class is almost always being held back from the interests of the more advanced. Trying to meet broad needs ends up meeting none well.

Karl
 
Jeff,

My thought, and a class I would be eager to attend, is an "academic" type course where we survey all of the things a contemporary maker of Amercian period furniture needs to know. Not the how, but the what. Type studies of the different period styles and how they came about, regional variations, design principles (proportion, the classical orders, the cyma curve etc ) with good, better and best examples. What woods where used then and why, or why not, they should be used today. Good finishes then and good finishes today. Period shops and tools - and what a well equipped shop today needs. You could include a hands-on componenet in skecthing and design layout with paper and pencil.  Basically, I see this as a short a course for someone who wants to broaden their knowledge of period furniture in order to compliment development of good technique.

And as John suggests, this type of class could easily be exported becasue your travelling overhead would be very low (no tools or equipment) and no guessing games involved setting up in someone else's shop.

I've long thought about a Period Furniture Book of Knowledge to compliment the tons of how-to stuff out there (another topic, I know) and this class idea is kind of like that.

Hope this helps.

Rick Yochim         
 
Jeff,

Very interesting discussion topic with no right answer. 
I have taken a few classes from George Slack in Warrenton, VA, a long 3 day weekend class at Old Mill and the week long Windsor Institute chair class.  My preference is for the multi-weekend format.  I find the week long schedule too intense.  I prefer to have some time between sessions to get caught up and ready for the next ,while figuring out what problems I may need to resolve and ask questions in a later session.  I would assume that this format appeals more or less to people within the local area.  I would not travel out of the area for a series of weekend classes.

In considering what is taught in the class, I look for a class that is focused on the specific piece of furniture and where it is assumed that you have the basic skills.  There is a definite place for skills classes but the fundamentals can be taught seperately from the specific furniture class.

I would look for the specific, focused skills, tricks, methods, sequence of steps to follow etc. related to the piece of furniture being built, ... carving the Newport shell for a kneehole desk, shaping the swan neck moldings on a high case clock, etc, etc.

Finally, what class would I attend if offered?  Like John, a fancy card table is high on my list of next projects.

Chris
 
I would like to thank all who responded. I appreciate every one's input. You don't know if you don't ask. I still would like to say that period furniture comes down to traditional joinery. How well your joints fit. I have my idea's of how I would execute a certain joint others may have different procedures, it comes down to how the joint fits. From there we can talk about design. 
I would still like to hear more.
 
First off, I live in Tn, so the spread out classes are out of the question for me.  I can see how that would be nice, but...

I have taken a few classes.  It seems like there are some folks who view it as entertainment, some who are dead set on completion of whatever the project is, and those who are there to learn some new skills and the project completion is not so important (finish it at home).  I'm usually there to learn.  Learning is entertaining to me!  If you pick the right instructor, you'll learn more than just how to build a chair or a desk, or whatever.  I have taken a class where it was obvious that the goal was to build the project and I didn't learn very much.  One particular chair class I took didn't cover ANY design at all.  All jigs were prebuilt and setups were done without the students involvement.  I built a chair, but I wouldn't be able to build another one based on what I learned.  On the other hand, I took another class to build a dressing table where I shipped home a pile of wood, but I had mostly learned what I needed to finish (we ran out of time and a few things were missed).  We produced a drawing for our project as a group effort with the instructor performing the drawing.  That worked out very well. 

One of my complaints is omission of the little things that make a good project really good.  Like how to make a nice line where the knee meets the leg post and fitting a rail to a post, etc.  I can sympathise with you trying to please everyone's needs.  That's tough!  I agree with you that the fundamentals are very important.  I think there are a lot of folks who want a finished project.  I prefer to learn skills and techniques..ie teach me how to fish!

I guess the best thing you can do is make very clear what the class objectives are and design the class such that there is ample time to complete those objectives. 

Oh, and as a traveler to most of the classes, smaller projects would be easier to ship.  Shipping the lumber home for my dressing table was very expensive!  I piled it all on the counter and a pak-n-ship place and had to run to catch my plane.  They did a very nice job with it though.  Fortunately, very few of the pieces were finished surfaces.

One last thought.  Perhaps a blog after the class would help.  If class participants call/email with questions, the instructor could answer them in his/her blog and everyone could benefit. 

Something that has been appealing to me lately is the three day technique classes.  I noticed that Phil Lowe has added some of these.  For example: veneering, piecrust table edge carving, etc. 

Sorry for my typing/spelling, I am on a conference call as I type...!

Tony
 
One theme I've noticed in this thread is the problem of long-distance travel.  Many have responded that they like the idea of multiple long weekend classes, but such classes are manageable only if you live nearby.  This definitely hits home for me.  I live in Texas, very far from all 18th century furniture focused classes.  (At least that I'm aware of -- if there is something nearby, someone let me know!). So, to take a class like that I do have to deal with the cost of long-distance travel and the logistics of transporting wood and tools back and forth (a nightmare, believe me).  Unfortunately, I feel like I don't have much of a choice.  I don't feel like I'm at the point, skill-wise, where I can look at a photograph and extrapolate out all appropriate joinery and techniques to execute a successful reproduction.  A set of plans might get me closer, but I still feel like I'd be missing much of the art, the tricks of the trade, and efficiencies that can't be learned from a set of plans.

That brings me to an out-of-the-box-type idea.  Surely there is a class format that would better serve those of us for whom distance is a serious obstacle.  This could be as simple as someone providing a set of plans and making themselves available to discuss the necessary steps to complete the piece, as the piece progresses. Though slightly more complex, the internet opens up the possibility of providing video links to demonstration of specific steps, detailed photos, etc.  This would be even better.  For example, if the project is a case piece, the instructor could post tutorials on sticking the molding, making the ogee bracket feet, making dadoes, etc. This is becoming a common place form of instruction in other fields.  And it happens sporadically in online woodworking forums.  In fact, within the last week I saw very basic (yet very helpful) tutorials on both moldings and ogee feet.  If these tutorials were all wrapped up into a single comprehensive project, I'd think many long distance types (like myself) would be interested. 
 
Last year I designed and built a collapsible Nicholson bench for just this reason.  My idea was to pack a couple (or 8) benches in the back of a van and travel to woodworkers instead of vice versa.  Though tuition would be more than usual, the lack of travel expenses and hotel rooms would tip the scales the other way.  It's also a significantly more energy efficient approach. 

At the heart of this is the reality that period woodworkers don't need machines to function.  So I can move a fully functioning woodshop in my mini van.  I've done this several times locally and it's worked pretty well.  In 2009 I'll start traveling greater distances.

My impression of Jeff Headley is that he may not realize what a joy it is to see him (and Steve) use hand tools.  I think this is certainly something they could do.  What will make that work are strong, active period woodworking "cells" or sapfm chapters. My feeling is that stuff like this can happen if demand exists.

So I recommend getting involved locally, and contacting folks your group would like to hear from.  You may need to provide a venue, maybe lumber.  Sometimes having pre-milled lumber is helpful, so maybe someone in your group would be willing to do this. 

Lastly, my vision for the future of period woodworking cells is that they have a meeting place and have several work benches where they can work together on a Saturday afternoon or a Wednesday evening.  It could be a community meeting room or church basement, where new members could receive instruction and where woodworkers could just work together. 

I have two boys and like me, they really don't want to sit in a classroom.  And I think boys in particular bond with people they work with.  In fact, some psychologists play Lego with kids to get them to talk about stuff that bothers them.  I can't tell you how many guys I know who look back on working with their Dads or Brothers as the happiest times of their lives. 

So I think we should start shifting away from the coffee clutch BS sessions like those I've been holding in my shop and start moving to a more active participation.  This is all possible because period woodworkers CAN do this because they don't need machines.  This is one of the added benefits of building stuff with hand tools.  Woodworking is really very solitary and it doesn't have to be.  And I think working side by side with another woodworker is really helpful and fun.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Adam
 
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