Hollow and Round Planes.

FrederickH

FrederickH

Well-known member
I've acquired a set of 18 (9 sets) married hollows and round planes and am in the process of tuning them up to use. About half of the rounds (produce a convex shape) have their two, outer, points of the iron exposed. In other words, when I use them, the points dig into the profile I'm trying to copy. My question is, should these outer points of the iron be doing any cutting, or just be honed to be below the cutting surface? TIA
 
Generally on my old H&R's there's one exposed side and one safe side. I generally use a size bigger than the exact radius so these corners don't dig in. Sometimes you want that sharp edge, in which case you canuse it to your advantage.-Al
 
Which side of the plane do you prefer the point to stick out on? I've nicked more than one piece of molding with both points exposed.
 
Don McConnell gave a lecture and workshop a couple weeks ago to the Rochester Woodworkers Society.  I asked the exact same question because I've heard it both ways.  He told us the they (Old Street Tools) sharpen the hollows and rounds so a uniform profile is exposed.  As to the issue of digging in at the corners I recall he recognized that problem.  I think he suggested tipping the plane.

I've tried the "not exposed on one corner" approach, and the problem, as I see it, is it won't cut in that region.  It is like you would need a "left & right" hand set.  I've also tried the uniform profile and had a pretty good shape and the last pass runs a nice gouge line along the profile.  Not sure what is best.  We did discuss use of scrapers and sandpaper to clean up areas.

I haven't tried it but I suppose with a small lateral adjustment to the blade you could expose more or less of on corner when needed.

Tom
 
Frederick - Generally speaking, if the iron at the corners of the mouth of a hollow (the planes that make a convex shape are called hollows, contrary to the convention in most molding planes) are digging into your work, you've either got too much of the iron exposed at these two corners, or you're trying to produce a shape that the plane is not designed to make.  Specifically, a hollow isn't intended to make an entire half-circle - one would typically use a pair of side-round planes to finish off the semicircle if you were making an astragal in the middle of a board, for example.

However, if you've not done some tunign on your H&Rs, it's very possible that the corners of the iron on your hollows are extended considerably more than the middle of the iron, since that's the way the iron would typically wear - much more in the middle.
 
I've really hesitated to get involved in this thread, not only because the set-up and use of hollow planes is somewhat thorny and about which there is no general agreement, but also because I'm not sure anything I have to say will be all that useful. But, I've finally decided to take a stab, because I'm not sure this thread, as it stands now, has been very helpful either.

From the outset, some 34 years ago, I've found hollows to be somewhat problematic. And, I still think there is no simple "magic bullet" approach which will satisfy everyone. Or, maybe, even the majority. But, after working with H&R's's almost daily, especially for the past six years, I've come to the conclusion that the approach which generally affords the best outcome in the widest array of usages is one which tries to keep the full profile of the iron as closely matched to the profile of the sole of the plane as possible.

I say this because it allows the plane, whether set for a heavy or fine cut, to cut the whole profile. This allows the arc of a convex portion of a moulding to be carried right up to a fillet, say of an ovolo, or the inflection point of a cyma curve. And, yes, this does involve the risk of a tendency to leave tracks at the margin of the cut. This can usually be minimized, though (assuming your hollow fits the arc you're trying to create), by adjusting the iron for a very light cut for a finishing pass or two. (I've just pulled out some sample mouldings I've done like this to double check myself, and the resulting "tracks" are only visible if held up to glancing light and would readily disappear with a light sanding.)

In some situations, as Al suggests, a hollow with a slightly larger radius can be used to ease these tracks. But, this isn't always possible. For example, if one is creating an ogee based on a sixty degree arc, the larger plane won't fit in the necessary space and will definitely foul the concave portion of the moulding if it needs to be used anywhere near the inflection point.

Sometimes, despite one's best effort to match the profile, the hollow plane is prone to leaving a heavier track on one side. In this case. it is sometimes possible to make succeeding passes with the plane which "walks" that track toward a fillet, where a light cut with a rabbet plane can eliminate it without crating a distractingly noticeable flat. And, to return to the ogee, or reverse ogee, the most difficult area is the inflection point. My strategy, there, is to get the concave portion very close, but intentionally leave material for a shaving or two near the inflection point, then work the convex portion. In the event, actually the likelihood, of leaving a track at that point with the hollow, I can then remove it with the last pass or two with the round plane.

As to the types of profiles which hollows can be used for, assuming the radius of the curve is appropriate to the plane, they can be used for arcs of any number of degrees - assuming there is room for the plane to be used. This is accomplished by changing the orientation of the body of the plane to position the sole so that the iron can cut where it needs to. This includes astragals. In fact, I'm puzzled how a side round (with a convex sole) could be used to help create an astragal (also a convex shape).

And, since I've mentioned sanding, I guess it might be useful to get into that a tiny bit. If one is sanding the other show/visible surfaces of a piece of furniture (which is not "cheating"), then a light sanding of the mouldings will be in order as well. If done with care, possibly including specially made sanding blocks, the details of mouldings can be preserved while doing this.

At Rochester, as Tom pointed out, we also touched on scraping - because someone asked in this context. As I think I said there, I have done that and it can be useful, but I really like to try to keep my planes tuned so as to be able to keep scraping and sanding to a bare minimum.

I have no idea if this has been helpful or not.

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR
 
Don, I would bet that you have more experience with wooden-bodied planes than anyone, so I am always eager to hear what you have to say on the subject. Thanks for your input.
 
"This includes astragals. In fact, I'm puzzled how a side round (with a convex sole) could be used to help create an astragal (also a convex shape)."

Don - I should've been a bit more specific.  What I use the side round for in this case isn't creating a profile - I use it to clean up the corners where the astragal meets the flat plane of the fillet.  Generally, I start with a standing square of wood slightly larger than the width of the desired astragal, then profile both corners at once with a hollow of the desired radius, then "finish off" the corners with a small side round when the astragal is nearly all cut, leaving just a little excess in the corners.

Of course, that assumes that one has a small enough side round and there's sufficient clearance on the rest of the molding that you can get the corner of the side round into the profile.  I would think that one could just as easily use a snipe's bill or other molding plane that comes to a "point" to finish out the corner.

 
David et al,

In the case of a cove and bead, a side round can be very useful for bringing the concave curve of the cove right up to the bead. But, in the case of an astragal, which is flanked at either terminus of the bead with flat fillets, my instinct would be to use a finely set rabbet plane for the purpose of defining/cleaning-up the inside corners. One of the reasons I really like having at least one narrow rabbet plane for use while sticking mouldings.

Pretty much by definition, astragals, including their fillets, stand proud of surrounding surfaces, so I'm not sure how often restricted access for the use of needed planes becomes that much of an issue. In which case, I guess I'm curious as to what advantage you feel the side round brings to this situation?

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR
 
Don - Fairly simple in my case - lack of a narrow rabbet plane.  The narrowest I have is 1/2", which is often too wide to get to those inside corners of an astragal when there's another element to the molding that's directly adjacent to the other side of the fillet.  Most of the time, I avoid stacking moldings for an overall profile, because it's extra work to either glue the stack together to make the profile, or extra miters to cut and fit if the different elements are applied individually.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top