HELP!!! Trouble glazing barred glass doors

H

HSteier

Well-known member
Several months ago I solicited help making Chippendale barred glass doors. Well after a lot  of work they're done; except for the glazing. I decided not to do this myself, but took it to a professional, a man in Norfolk Va. with decades of experience with stained glass who was recommended to me by an experienced local craftsman/antiques restorer.
I was concerned because the ribs that support the bars were only 1/8" thick. The push points would be set into these thin ribs and I was afraid that the push points would crack them. Sure enough, the glazier called me today and said the first try with a push point cracked one of the ribs. He proposes to set the glass into clear silicone bedding. I'm sure this will hold the glass, but I'm afraid that any squeeze out on the front will be very difficult to clean up. Any thoughts or comments about how to proceed? Has anyone out there confronted this problem before? Is there any other way to secure the glass? They didn't have silicone in the 18th century and I believe period doors also had thin ribs so there must be some way to do this.

All help appreciated.

Howard Steier

 
  Hi Howard, I have done a lot very thin rib windows with a spring loaded installation tool.The only way to use very thin diamond points successfully is, to hold a small piece of wood against the other side of the rib supporting it,while shooting it in the rib.  Howard you can do the glazing and be much happier with finished product. The only place for silicone is underwater,not on furniture projects. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!



                                                                              Ed
 
Howard,I think Red devil makes one,you might want to check with your local glass supplier. If your not able to locate one let me know,if I can't find one, I'll lend you mine. OK?                Good Luck!
                                          Ed
 
Here is a link to one
http://www.framingsupplies.com/Fletcher/FletcherPointDriver.htm
Rockler sells it for $20 more  + $18 more for the points
Mike
 
http://www.fletcherviscom.com   They're used a lot in picture framing too. I've seen them in Lowes or Home Depot, can't remember which.

I've seen a bunch of old window sashes with brads about an eighth of an inch away from the glass to help lock the glaze in place. That way when the glaze cracks(which it will!) the hope was most of it would hang on until spring.

Which way is the grain running through the bars and muntins? If it's not dead on vertical through the thinnest section that's part of why they cracked.
 
Howard,

I have glazed dozens of windows in case pieces and I never have used nails or the points to hold the glass in place.  I always used water base glaze because it dries solid and hard within a day and because of this holds the glass in place.  Never had a glass pane come loose in 30 years.  If you use oil base glaze, which takes forever to harden, then you will probably want to use the points.

Dennis Bork
Antiquity Period Designs, Ltd.
 
I'm going to check out the spring loaded pointers and thanks to all for the sources.
Dennis, I have used latex window caulk for glazing but it dries very quickly. It skims over almost immediately so it's difficult to smooth over. You only get a few moments and one shot at it. Which brand of water-based glaze do you use and where is it available? Does it have a reasonable working time?

Thank you.

Howard Steier
 
Howard,

I used the DAP latex brand which came in a plastic jar from ACE Hardware.  Lately I could not find it and ACE told me it was not available in a jar any more but rather in a tube for a caulking gun.  I have not yet had to purchase it in this tube because I still have a large jar full of glazing.  The material in the tube should be the same.  This brand did not skim over too fast, at least for me.  Perhaps other brands do.  Many times I had a fan blowing on it overnight to dry it faster (but only because I was late with the item and the customer was on my back - the fan has saved me many times from the hangman's rope).

If you can, try the tube material on a sample and let me know how it works for you.

Dennis Bork
 
In the gay and confident spirit that the doors would never be exposed to high winds, I have never used any mechanical device to hold the glass in place. I've always used some kind of water based glazing material, home brew or Home Depot, it doesn't matter which. One benefit of using this material is that it can easily be colored with powdered tints so the back side of a mullion has a similar color to the face side.
F
 
Howard,

I have to correct myself.  The glazing in the jar was by Elmer's (same as the white glue mfg.).  I can't remember if the glazing in the caulking tube was by Elmer's or DAP.  I agree, the latex, water base, is easy to color with dyes and tints.

Dennis Bork
 
Re: Glazing for glass in corner cupboard doors
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 09:04:15 PM » Reply with quote Modify message
I pulled this from the NAWCC site where this topic as discussed. I think it is much easier to use a glazing compound on a curved door than it is to put in sticks. to be accurate glazing is the glass,and the operation of installing the glass, glazing compound is the stuff you asked about. Here is the quoted text:

"Hi,
Someone mentioned whiting (calcium carbonate), which is commonly available from any/all hardware and paint stores for thickening paint or for sports fields.
I mix up whiting with pigment powder to get the color I want and then mix with shellac to a stiff consistency. It is easily reversible, can be colored as desired. If you are already working with shellac, you should have all the ingredients, except the whiting.
Personally, I don't like the oil-based putties but I'd use them before I ever used Rock Hard on an antique.
Craig

and also:

I think that shellac based putty is what the clock makers used originally.A sample of the old putty will dissolve in alcohol leaving the whitting and pigment.The clock makers did not have months to wait for linseed based putty to dry,and it would have softened up in the peddler's wagon in the summer heat,while shellac based putty dries in a day or two.
David

Anyone ever try this shellac based compound?
Mike
 
This subject came up on the old forum where I thought someone had suggested using Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty because it has the look of old glazing compound when dry. I searched the archive and couldn't find the reference although there is some good stuff there about glazing. I think I would be tempted to try it, but with a latex additive to make it not quite so brittle. Has anyone else used the product for glazing? I agree with Dennis and don't think points are necessary on a cabinet door.
 
I have used Durham's Rock Hard for glazing on clock hood doors. It is easy to add color to but I think it is a bit brittle as it fails after about 20 years. I have used Dennis method with the Elmer's putty and it worked quite well. I am curious about the shellac and whiting and would like to know if any one knows any more about it being historically correct or not.
Mike
 
I don't know when 'points' and spring-loaded installation tools were invented, but I have never seen any evidence of them in 17th, 18th or 19th century work (perhaps sprigs on some late 19th century stuff).

I have re-glazed and rebuilt many 18th century glazed bookcase doors and they've all been glazed with glazier's compound. I've seen several recipes for glazier's compound and they were all water-based, consisting of whiting and binders of one form or another.

The one I use contains small proportions (in relation to the whiting) of animal glue, alcohol and shellac. No colour is added to the compound, the colour being burnished onto the surface when dry.
 
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