Hand Finishing vs Spray Finishing

[TheWoodWiz]

Back to the shellac durability part of the thread; one thing I have heard (but have not verified through direct experimentation) is that dewaxed shellac is better at resisting rings and water damage than waxed shellac. This seems plausible to me. If it is true, then perhaps the use of waxy shellac is coloring some peoples opinions on its' durabilty?

Was that kitchen counter coated with waxed or dewaxed shellac?

I also know that shellac was commonly used to finish floors. That lends some credence to it being more durable than people give it credit for.

JB

 

[Antiquity]

If you are going to set up a spray booth in your basement and you should have a fire do to your spraying and your house burns down, your insurance company may not cover your loss!

Dennis Bork

 

[millcrek]

For me this thread has created more questions than answers. I have been doing this for a while now, I've bought every old book on finishing, I have come across in the used book stores and the internet, and I'm not sure I really know what true period finishing techniques are. How many people are really using period materials? where are you getting your dragons blood, red lead and other period materials? Do you use grain alcohol when you mix shellac? Are there books I am missing? Beyond the period materials, where is the information on how they actually used them. For many people brushing on several coats of dewaxed shellac, rubbing it out and calling it done is using period finishing techniques. It seems to me there is way more to it. 

 

[CBWW]

I agree- shellac really wasnt imported into this country until 1840ish or so.  Im not sure that date is correct so somebody please correct me on that. So technically, shellac is not really a "true period finish".  I think it is a bit impossible and impractical to really use the materials from back then if you can even find them.  shellac seems to work fine for light use....

And Dennis is right- the company will not cover your loss and if they new you were doing it they would drop your policy.  Getting insurance on a home based woodoworking shop is a huge pain in the you know what.... 

 

[Adam Cherubini]

I've never heard any of my restorer friends say that they had any interest in trying to use period correct paint products. They are always looking for the best looking, longest lasting finish they can find.

Mark, I get the exact same sense.  My concern is that the restorers I know are all in their 60's, their customers are in their 70's, and that expectations are different among the younger individuals in the industry.  I can tell you with certainty that museums are changing their exhibits, and each year new conservators and curators graduate from programs like Winterthur's, and that both groups are generally seeking stuff that's not quite so shiny.

Adam

 

[millcrek]

Adam, It's been my experience that primary restoration emphasis changes based on the client. Museums want preservation and reversibility, antique dealers want cheap and undetectability, the only clients concerned with durability are those putting the piece into their home. As someone who repairs furniture for a living, I am very concerned with period materials. It's much easier to fix a finish if you know how it was originally done even down to the pigment source. When finishing my own work I am usually experimenting with some material or technique for latter use in repair, unfortunately this has lead to a lot of refinishing of brand new pieces, the amount of curly maple I have ruined is scary.
Tom

 

[Antiquity]

My solution to the "what finishing method do I use" is simple.  Use whatever product and method is best and easiest for you to use.  Period!  Just remember, I you are doing it for a customer the top coat should be as bullet proof as possible.  If it comes back for repair, like shellac, your name will be tarnished.  When I was an apprentice my boss always told me to "make the job so it does not come back for repair".

Dennis Bork
Antiquity Period Designs, Ltd.

 

[dkeller_nc]

I agree- shellac really wasnt imported into this country until 1840ish or so.  Im not sure that date is correct so somebody please correct me on that. So technically, shellac is not really a "true period finish".  I think it is a bit impossible and impractical to really use the materials from back then if you can even find them. 

Disclosure - I'm not an expert on this, I'm just parroting what I've read. 

The scholarly papers I've read from the wooden artifacts group and other sources suggest that most finishes used in the late 18th century were plant-resin based.  That would include "spirit varnishes" that rely on evaporation of a solvent to form a film, and "long/short oil varnishes" that use linseed oil as a carrier and largely cure by polymerization with oxygen in the air.  Most of the period recipes I've read cite copal, mastic, dammar and sandarac as primary ingredients, with occasional use of fossilized amber as an additive.  All of these are tree resins.


There are references to shellac use as far back as the early 1700's, but it appears that it was not a favored finish because the techniques required to refine it to a largely clear finish were not perfected until the early 1800s.

So while shellac was available considerably earlier than the 1840's, it wasn't a common finish for colonial/federal period furniture.

 

[Jeff L Headley]

I think period is 1820-. Lets talk oil and wax as period with regional considerations. Modern varnish is a hard finish, and HARD to remove. Shouldn't it's removability be considered also. I would use varnish on painted surfaces but not on a periodically maintained surface. What does it take to remove a modern varnish finish ( ABRASIVES) Which should be considered before application. Plus cracking after 50 - 75 years. Why not coat everything with a fine coat of soft plastic (lacquer). Easily removable.  

Shellac does not like water, plain and simple, which makes me wonder about Kitchens and floors. If using shellac as a finish think barrier! Wax, wax, and then more wax.

 

[albreed]

Kirk- I thin the varnish about 50%. Usually I sand with 400 if I'm doing more than 1 coat. Sanding will get it a little smoother than steel wool.
I think spirit varnish (could denote shellac) was used in early japanning here- late 1600's-Al

 

[jacon4]

An interesting article on 17/18th century finishes, it's 25 pages long so i have included a couple paragraphs on likely period finshes that cuts to the chase.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/use_of_wax_finishes.pdf




American Finishing Techniques
Although oil polishing is not mentioned in the guide books until Roubo in 1774, it has long been
believed to have been one of the primary finishes used on Colonial American furniture. Linseed oil, the drying oil used in oil painting, was not available in large quantities and not often used in architectural painting prior to 1700.34 However, it was certainly available in quantities large enough to be used as a furniture finishing material. Oil and ground pigments were used to produce the decorative painting found on late seventeenth century furniture.35 Its use may have naturally extended to include transparent finished areas as well. This seems increasingly likely when one considers that few records have been found indicating that resins were being imported prior to 1700.
As early as 1640 Connecticut residents were directed to plant flax, the source of linseed oil36
and limited quantities of the oil were available late in the century.37 As the earliest records of linseed oil presses date from after the turn of the eighteenth century, it is likely that some of the early oil was being imported.38 Few cabinetmakers? account books from the first quarter of the eighteenth century have been found to verify its use by cabinetmakers; however, it was being sold by Boston japanner Nehemiah Partridge in 1713.39 Linseed oil appears frequently in the account books of cabinetmakers later in thecentury. A recipe for an oil varnish consisting of only linseed oil and pigment appears in the account books of cabinetmaker Isaac Byington.40

 

[R Bohn]

Hi All
  I think there are many pros and cons for hand and spray finishing, but the one that stands out is time. I don't have to say that making a living in this field can be a challenge [ high gas prices, shop expense, slow economy, etc]. I do spray from time to time but most is done by hand. A trained eye can easily pick-up the difference.
 As far as period finishes, I don't know any one that uses the old materials.  For the simple reason that modern materials hold up better. The Smithsonian has a board containing 75-80 different materials used in finishing, all appear different under black light.
  As for what to use?,  that can be a trick question.  If you are building furniture, as most of you are, you can use what ever works best. If you are building for trade, durability comes into the picture. And if you are restoring antiques, historic preservation in mind, you might use modern coating like B-67 or B-72. Is there one right answer?   I don't think so. There are combinations  that work better than others. One rule, Shellac goes under most finishes, not on top.And , of you that know me,BLO has a history, but too many draw-backs to use today.
 All of us want are creations to last. With that in mind, the choices narrow substantially. Repair ability  is the major factor. Someday that chair will need re- gluing  or that inlay will pop-up. If you use hide glue, simply re-glue. But if you a modern yellow or white glue the joint may be destroyed. The new glue will not stick to the old glue,the old residue will have to be removed. The same goes for finishes,If that water ring cant be repaired you have to strip the finish. Now the furniture you built to look one-way is going  to look the way the restorer thinks it should.
 So what are the finishes that can be repaired? Shellac can easily be repaired as can lacquer, some varnishes, not all. Then we get in to oils and wax, nether are durable and personally I don't think of them as a finish. Shellac has a history that goes back about 3000 yrs and has been detected on furniture in the 1500's{Wikipedia}. When you factor in the fact that a lot of furniture makers came from some place other than here, and that few finishers let there secretes out and didn' t right books I think the arrival/use of shellac in America should be looked at more closely.
 A word of caution, if you are not set up to spray [respirators, ventilation,etc,]use a different approach, and for sure not in the house.
  Be safe, do good work!
          Randy