french polishing around carving

F

frangallo

Well-known member
I'm looking for help in developing a good method of polishing around carved areas without having to deal with running in and build up. Anyone out there with some advice?
 
I have "padded" shellac on many pieces with carving. I don't build up to a "polish", I just use this technique to apply shellac. I start with one or two brushed-on coats just for a little build up. I then pad the shellac and I gently pad over the carved areas (fans, shells, acanthus etc.). I keep a small brush in my other hand and as I go over the carved areas, if there is any shellac pooling I quickly brush it out. After several rounds of padding I let it dry overnight, use #0000 steel wool, air gun the dust and go again. I'm finished "when it looks right", well built up but short of "polished".
Hope this helps.

Howard Steier
 
Hi Fran,  Et al, any one can get runs if they overload at one time, the trick is lighter, coats, and watch all the time for the dreaded run, I find brushing cross grain seems to help it somehow, (while its drying some) then finish with the grain, 2 coats then let dry fully, then if you’ve done a good job,(No Run) a polish rubber can be worked to even the top surface, (Sercular movements) not great technology, just a acquired knack. Hope this is of some help.

                                                    Joseph Hemingway
                                                        Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
Thanks guys. I use similar methods though I try to avoid the brush. I find the body-ing stage is more efficient with the rubber and for me is the choice. What do I know! I'm thinking maybe my issue isn't with the finishing but really how well I prepare the edges of the carving and the area immediately adjacent. I rub out by hand literally by putting rottenstone on my hand. During this process last night I had the dickens of a time getting the gray color out of the end grain at the tops of the shells.
I even tried buffing across the ends with course linen. Got the very tips alright, but the "inneys" are still gray. What it comes down to is time. I've got 9 hours into polishing a mere Queen Anne stool which looks fine when you stand in front of it. I bet 3 of those hours were spent worrying the shell edges. I'm surprised there's any wood left!
Thanks again and I'd love to hear more about this method. It's virtually the only one I use. I think I am addicted to the smell.:eek:}
Fran
 
Fran, But avoiding the brush for the rubber to lay on? Is where you/anyone will overload, and that well create a run, getting into the corners first that is where the brush shows its true colours, sorry your getting your problem, but time spent bodying in is the end result (Time) and lastly? rottenstone is for the antic infect only, not runs.

                                                  Joseph Hemingway
                                                    Shareing the tricks of the trade
 
No, no. I am singularly temperate in my application of shellac! I do not speak of runs when I refer to "running in". That term harks back to my teacher in the method. Suppose you are polishing and allow the rubber to overlap an adjacent area without rubbing off. The shellac dries and when you continue on with the adjacent area the pattern of the previous overlapping becomes marked. The only solution is to sand back with 600 and start over. I am in the process at the moment and i can tell you it is arduous. I find myself always trying to correct for this when polishing around carvings and I am sure there is a better way. The time it takes for these corrections is always eating in to profits.
I must tell you that I learned this technique in England. The chap that started me off was a professional, one of those men who brings his team into a Barclays branch on the weekend and refinishes the whole place by Monday morning. His first effort was to poo-poo the French method in favor of what he called English polishing. I take it he did not like the French. His method was to build up a few coats of shellac with a brush and then sand back to a smooth surface and then apply the rubber. I used this method for years with varying results. Then I met someone who had published an article in an American magazine on the subject. Except for his overuse of oil, I was impressed and have been very happy with the results. However I am sure these old masters have the solution to my problem. I wish I knew it.
Please give me more!
Fran
 
Fran, Running in? No? Bodying up, both the same meaning? Different master?
I don’t think you will find a quick solution from anyone with your Q anywhere.
I was brought up to lay it on first with a button brush, (say 2 coats) working from the flat up to? any Leg, Upright or Carving, brushing crossgrain at first, then as it dries, just a little mind, change to, with the grain, this give a flatish even coat, then a rubber is used to level out (circular movement) a straight pull around any carving, followed by circular movement again on the straight, and on cabriole legs,  circular/ straight movements, when fully cured, a light (pullover is used) rubber with the grain. This is where any Rottenstone would be used to mat the finish. on antic furniture.
Hope you find that answe fran.
                               

                                              Joseph Hemingway
                                                Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
Thanks, Joseph. I'm going try that method. One question. When you brush what cut are you using. Not a full 2 lb. I'm guessing.
Fran
 
Interesting, interesting.
I just rub left, right and sideways and seem to get a good result.

Howard Steier
 
Fran, Howard, first the circular motion? This is to fillin , the” bottom from the top” in the polish on the grain fibres, I never really got this, as the brush had achieved that already. - Kaye Eastwood was referring, (a bit like a road planer). My button brush/mop is a No 8, Zorino mop, 3/4", I like this size as it’s an all round useful mop. But at Taylor & Hobson Ltd, back in the 60s, everything came from the Scottish firm of: Smith & Rogers Ltd.they made everything for them self’s.
Howard, I use your method too when speed is the essence.
Fran, to get into the corners? The rubber is made with a chisel point, them reshaped when reloading with polish.
 
                                                      Joseph Hemingway
 
Joseph
First let me say that I really appreciate your advice. Now I'll share with you the methods I have used to "get in there". I knew when I was finishing the block front I would have a difficult road ahead getting the shellac to shine in the corners. Here's where it gets silly. I ordered a bunch of hard felt, which to a certain extent works, but leaves a mess. One advantage it has is that it is mildly abrasive. Eventually I used the bare felt as a dry rubber and then the brush with straight alcohol to bring back the gloss. It's a good thing I am a patient man, but the way I saw it was since it took 160 hours to carve the shells on the fall front it was hard to argue that I was spending too much time on the finish. What do you use inside the rubber to obtain a chisel point? Or do you just use a bare piece of cloth? I could imagine using a fingernail to get in there but I keep them trimmed during the finish. Ever gouge a chunk out of your finish with your thumb nail?
Back to the brush. This is a real nose in the air story, so prepare yourself. I was severely chided by a frenchman for applying with the brush. It went something like this. "what asses you Americans are, you do not understand this method as well as some apes, no? This is not some paint! This is the polish for the Royalty, no? How dare you brush this on some woods with some kind of mops! You understand very little this delicacy! Je me fiche de ce type infect. C'est idiot de faire comme ca l'oiseau...Allez vous en, louffier.....Tell this boob to go away!!!!"
You get the trend. after this impassioned speech I tried to swear off the brush. I've always feared running into this man again! About the brush, I am unfamiliar with the type you recommend. I use something called golden nylon, which works well.
Back to the cut, and this I think is important. What solution do you use when brushing?
Cheers
Fran
 
Fran. The rubber? Its core is made from soft wadding covered with mutton cloth, but any soft open cotton weave would suffice for it all if pushed, then placed inside a piece of cotton shirt material, this makes the best rubber.
And I use full strength polish?  Thinned by 10%, this was the method I learnt in the 60s,
As Kaye Eastward was shown in the 1920. And so on, and on.
One cannot fault them first masters, they did the difficult bit? The finding out.
I judge them as the furniture mountaineers.
It’s so much easier explaining this as praticle.

                                                            Joseph Hemingway

 
I suppose to some extent the technique used depends upon the result desired. I have heard different interpretations of what "French Polishing" is. My definition is multiple coats of padded shellac that results in complete grain filling with the final padding done with a few drops of a mineral oil added to the pad. The mineral oil is subsequently "spirited off" with a pad containing only alcohol. This  technique produces a highly polished mirrored surface. But the technique lends itself to flat surfaces, not to the irregular surfaces on carvings. I was describing the technique I use to pad shellac and I really don't thing it makes a darn bit of difference which direction you go as long as you coat the surface evenly. Frankly, I think that a highly polished surface detracts from the visual impact of a carved surface. But of course this is a matter of taste and since we're quoting the French "chacon a son gout"

Howard Steier
 
Yes, Howard does bring up the fact that my first mistake is even attempting to french polish a carved surface. In all the literature I have encountered and all the "cogniscenti" I have probed, all of them are of the opinion that the carved surface is what it is and shouldn't be made into something else. However I have become so addicted to shellac that I am bent on perfecting my methods. I would relent if I have not already seen carved surfaces polished to a brilliant finish with none of the nasty worms I try to overcome at the transition points. How is it done? That's what I want to know.
Fran
 
Howard, Yes you are correct with your theory? Please don’t be offended by the wind-up on this subject, And anyone else in sapfm? for  its  purposs was just a waste of good time.
Most questions by this type of person, the answer is not for the asker, but someone standing behind them, acting like todays secret society. joking? not at all, this is true, its happening in England as well.
sorry because, I felt I was in a witness box with all the apprentice type questions? hence  my answers had to be correct, but not over theoretical, giving the info, and not over informing the full story? Remembering we are not all apprentices, (Sorry Howard) it appears that this offend you.
Again My apology. pp: thank you for your kind private worded e/mail 17/5/09 howard, I agree with you there as well.
                                                         
                                                      Joseph Hemingway
 
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