Chippendale Dressing Table Construction

R

rchampagne

Well-known member
I would like to build a Newport style dressing table similar to the one in the attached picture.  I am curious as to how the front is constructed.  In other words, the apron with the shell carving is one piece and is tenoned into the legs.  How are the drawer blades above the two small drawers joined to the apron?  Is it one piece that runs the width of the case, or two smaller pieces, or some other arrangement?  I haven't had the chance to examine a similar piece in person yet, so I've just been working from this photo.  Does anyone know of a source for a side view of a similar piece? 
Thanks,
Rob

 

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Take a look at Jefferey Greene's book American Furniture of the 18th century ISBN 1-56158-104-6. It might not have all the info you require but if not it's a good start.
Fran
 
Another good reference is Phil Lowe's artricle in FWW a month or two ago (similar, but different).  Looks to me like the apron forms the middle of the middle rail and there are two small rails above the small drawers.  Wouldn't surprise me if those are dovetailed in the apron and tenoned into the posts?  I'll be interested in replies from those who know (I'm just guessing and thinking how I would approach it).  Nice piece.  I really like the top with the molding under it. 

Tony
 
Thanks Fran and Tony.  This piece is a reproduction of a Goddard dressing table mabe by Jeff Greene.  I use his book often and have found it to be a great resource for construction methods, but unfortunately he does not feature a piece of this style in his book.  He does use this piece as an example for a shell carving, and in doing so illustrates the overall shape of the apron.  It is not readily apparent to me how the two small dividers are joined to the apron and case from this photo. 

Tony, I used the plans from Phil Lowe's article for my last piece.  The construction here appears to be somewhat different, with the main difference between the two being the large carved shell which has effectively replaced the carved middle drawer on the Queen Anne style piece. 
Thanks,
Rob
 
Hi, here is a typical behind view of the front drawer runners joining into the front.
the best way is to set out your front drawer openings first, then cutout  from the front, this will stop any  breakout.
then working  from the back
setting your mortice holes as required, this  joint is just for the  small lower drawers, please see the attachment for detail.

                                                Joseph Hemingway
 

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Josephs detail is obviously the correct solution. When I looked at the expanded drawing on page 140 of J.G. book it pretty much screamed stubbed tenons, though later perhaps dovetails. I wouldn't hesitate to go forward with this method both from a practical standpoint and also in consideration of the source of the previous detail aka Joseph Hemingway. let us all know how the process goes.
Fran
 
A further note. I realise this is cheating and I wouldn't use this tool for anything that pretended to be an "authentic" reproduction, but if you happen to own a Festool Domino this would make this process slick, accurate and reproducable if you were making more than one. It's the loose tenon gone mad for those not familiar with the Domino.
F
 
Hi, I don't think any more explaining is a necessary exercise, for experienced furniture maker like fran, and others in sapfm, but if I am wrong, and a few more requested this service, I'd be glad to oblige, but this a common joint on dressing tables design.

                                                    Joseph Hemingway
                                                      1968-2009
 
With all due respect to Joseph, I am happy to beat this thing to death if necessary. Our purpose is to provide a forum to aid our brothers and sisters in their endeavors.  If this means walking someone through a dovetail layout, so be it. I am happy to lend what I can, imperfect as it may be, to keep alive and perhaps even advance the techniques in which I was trained. While I am humbled by the presence of some of our members, I am eager to assist the less erudite.
Fran
 
Just for s+++s and grins, check out the blow up in Gotshall's  Making Antique Furniture Reproductions page 53. (ISBN 0-486-27976-6) The plan is something I would only endeavor to interpret with a gun to my head, but if you are a glutton for punishment, there may be something of value there. Personnally I'd wing it.
Fran
 
Joseph and Fran,
Thanks for the input.  However, my main question is less how the runners join the front of the case than how the front drawer dividers are configured.  I am wondering how the wide apron, in this case at least as tall as the drawer opening, is joined to the divider between the upper and lower drawers.  Is there a full divider running the width of the piece, which the apron overlaps with a half dovetail?  Or is it accomplished another way? 
Thanks,
Rob
 
Rob,
Go here :
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/initialize?sessionid=0&next=html/search.html&bad=html/search.html&dbchoice=1&active=1&entityCurrentPage=Search1&javascript=true&dbname=DLDecArts&style=DLDecArts

Select "Chipstone Furniture all records"  and goto panel 217.  You'll see a dressing table very similar to the one in your picture.  Panel 219 will answer your question.

Chuck
Caution:  This site is adictive!

 
Hi, Rob, My apology for misunderstanding your Question.
And thank's ,Chuck, for your input.


                                                            Joseph Hemingway
 
I'm still not sure what the connection is between the vertical drawer (what would you call that?  it's not a divider or a blade or runner) piece and the front of the apron.  The joint Jo showed was the back.  I usually see that as a thru tenon there.  In front, that could be small tenons like Jo's picture, or it could be a sliding dovetail or....?

And the center runner is just plain freaky.  Most pieces I see (philly pieces) have a runner glued to that vertical piece (on both sides and at different heights for the two different depth drawers that are adjacent to one another) or nailed up from underneath when the drawers are of similar size.   And his outboard runners stop short of the back? I don't know if that was a replacement.  Usually, the outboard runners go back to the back leg and are nailed or slide into some notch sawn into the back leg.  It definitely looks like there is something missing at the back leg.  Tho maybe the back legs served as a sort of drawer stop?

Looking at image 212, it looks like that center runner may be a Newport thing?  Anyone? And notice the mysterious connections to the front.  Looks like half laps and nails to me.  The Townsend piece may well be the same.  Hard to tell.  Philly pieces are different.  I always think that Goddard-Townsend were so fastidious.   

Where are those folks who give me such grief about 4-squaring lumber being 18th c trade practice?  Look at the bottom of the top.  Looks like he only flattened where the top sat on the case.  The center appears to show evidence of a curved plane iron working very close to cross grain.  If I wrote an article about making joints in a piece like this with nails and glue blocks, I'd get hate mail.  Yet here it is on a fine piece from one of the most sought after makers.  Somebody ought to tell the Kenos they've been had.  This furniture just isn't that nice. 

Adam

P.S.  I'm kidding I really like it.  I have a Philly version of this on my to do list. 
 
From the chipstone pictures it looks like a single piece spaning the width of the drawers and shel section, probably glued onto the top of the shell section?

But in your original picture it looks more like two short pieces across the drawer width.

I would guess stub tennons like in Joseph's picture.

You could also try contacting Jeffery Greene.
 
Chuck,
Your site appears to be just what I was looking for.  I should have enough from these photos to build my piece.  What a great site.  How is it that I've never been able to find it?? 
Thanks again,
Rob
 
Chuck,
I spent some more time checking out that site.  It is a very useful resource and has a nice variety of pieces.  The quality and selection of the photos is great.  Thanks again for sharing it.  Are there similar resources online?
Rob
 
Rob,
Sorry for the delay in replying. 
I'm glad you found the site useful, I know I have.  I'm not aware of any other similar sites - I was hoping some of the other members might help in that matter.

It is quite intersting to be able to get into the bowels of these pieces and discover some of the methods the old masters used fabricate parts unseen.  Sometimes, as Adam pointed out, it's kind of disappointing.

BTW I finished, this spring, the dressing table I started last fall (cold winter this year).  Overall I'm very pleased with the results, but I'll do better on the next one.

Good luck
-Chuck     
 
Adam Cherubini said:
I'm still not sure what the connection is between the vertical drawer (what would you call that?  it's not a divider or a blade or runner) piece and the front of the apron.  The joint Jo showed was the back.  I usually see that as a thru tenon there.  In front, that could be small tenons like Jo's picture, or it could be a sliding dovetail or....?

And the center runner is just plain freaky.  Most pieces I see (philly pieces) have a runner glued to that vertical piece (on both sides and at different heights for the two different depth drawers that are adjacent to one another) or nailed up from underneath when the drawers are of similar size.   And his outboard runners stop short of the back? I don't know if that was a replacement.  Usually, the outboard runners go back to the back leg and are nailed or slide into some notch sawn into the back leg.  It definitely looks like there is something missing at the back leg.  Tho maybe the back legs served as a sort of drawer stop?

Looking at image 212, it looks like that center runner may be a Newport thing?  Anyone? And notice the mysterious connections to the front.  Looks like half laps and nails to me.  The Townsend piece may well be the same.  Hard to tell.  Philly pieces are different.  I always think that Goddard-Townsend were so fastidious.   

Where are those folks who give me such grief about 4-squaring lumber being 18th c trade practice?  Look at the bottom of the top.  Looks like he only flattened where the top sat on the case.  The center appears to show evidence of a curved plane iron working very close to cross grain.  If I wrote an article about making joints in a piece like this with nails and glue blocks, I'd get hate mail.  Yet here it is on a fine piece from one of the most sought after makers.  Somebody ought to tell the Kenos they've been had.  This furniture just isn't that nice. 

Adam

P.S.  I'm kidding I really like it.  I have a Philly version of this on my to do list. 
Click to expand...

Adam, It is called the drawer Guide; in England, or centre guide.  My apologies for posting the back joint, I only showed this as a quick guide for the front, not having an illustration on hand. And being guided by SAPFM president? This was one of the best Clubs in the USA? I was thinking our members would soon spot this mistake. 

                                                    Joseph Hemingway

 
Bob- I've measured a few of these nd am in the process of copying a Newport highboy now. The construction of the case and front is as follows, and is not typical to most case construction of this period, harking back to late 17th-early 18th century six legged stuff.
The case is a dovetailed box, the front skirt half blind DT'd into the sides, the same with the backboard.
The skirt in front has vertical dividers that are lapped into a rabbet in the skirt to the immediate left of the right draw and right of the left draw and are secured with nails that are driven through the lap into the skirt parallel to the front of the skirt. This is different from the Philly ones,as another contributor has pointed out, which are tenoned into the bottomof the draw opening and then nailed into the skirt, the length of the vertical divider being visible along the draw opening.
At the top of the vertical divider where it meets the blade above it there's a shallow dado in the bottom of the blade to locate the vertical piece and nails are driven down from the top through the blade and into the divider.
In the piece I'm doing, the long blade is mortised into a vertical pine backer that's glued to the inside edges of the case where the top section of the leg would be in a typical lowboy. The blade is actually notched behind the backer and continues on to be mortised into the side of the case also. The reason the case is made this way is because the legs were added to the case later, having a square section that continues up into the case and is secured with glue blocks. What appears to be the leg in the front of the piece is really a 1/8" thick piece of veneer glued onto the skirt, backer, blades and case side.
I hope I've been clear enough to help you out. It's an odd construction for pieces of this period, and there are some Newport pieces that are probably made in the conventional manner.
Make sure that you make your skirt at least 7/8 thick in order to have enough depth for the carving-Al Breed
 
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