Author Topic: Dovetail  (Read 8784 times)

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2012, 06:15:09 PM »
Here was my dovetail square (square might be a loaded description). I have shown this before. It is 34 years old. I lost it last year during one of our talks. If anyone has found it I would greatly appreciate it's return. We (Steve Hamilton made this one) made these back in the 70's and thought this could be of interest and then thought no one is interested in this. We missed the boat! We do have other tricks of the trade.
I have found a knife line (which could be highlighted by a pencil) adds to help define my dovetail saw line. The knife tick and then the knife line helps me to set and cut an exact saw line with my dovetail saw. I have also never cut anything than hand cut dovetails.

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2012, 06:37:14 PM »
Let talk sliding dovetails. Straight or tapered? Drawer rails or case construction. Both sides angled top and bottom (as commonly seen in New England) or single sided (as seen in Virgina)

Jack Plane

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2012, 06:59:04 PM »
The only time I've seen parallel sliding dovetails is for affixing the ends of drawer dividers (rails) into carcases where the short length (2" ? 3") makes them relatively easy to assemble. Anything over that length really necessitates tapered dovetails ? always with the flat on top.
Regards, Jack.

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2012, 10:31:21 PM »
Sliding carcass dovetails by their nature are beveled (I agree top side flat and easily adjusted to fit for rails (blades) and bottom and then covered by a 1/4 to 5/16" strip). I tried fitting a bow front chest with what I thought was parallel dovetailed slots on each side. With that said I build period furniture reproductions 8 - 12 hour a day 5-7 days a week ( more like 5-6  days a week anymore) BUT! my hobby is building furniture. So I get an hour before work and evenings sometimes to work on what I want. I made a Salem bow front with the bottom in a sliding dovetail above continuous side flared foot. One side I slid in from the back which is normal the other side I slid in from the front. Why I don't know maybe not enough sleep the nights before and then I offered this chest to WIA outside of Chicago. No problem, I can remember how it goes together. WRONG! We tried to put it together backwards. Needless to say all sliding dovetails are angled whether you want them to be or not. Please don't try this while being filmed. This chest is completed (without any more undo mishaps) and can be purchased at a nominal fee. One board sides and top! AS SEEN ON TV! Yes! I can be bought but I would like to think I can not be rented! 

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 09:09:58 PM »
I am cheap! I use an eigth inch chisel to clean out my dovetail corners. Forget about two beveled edge chisels. Yes I cut corners and you can too, but only with an eigth inch chisel.

Jack Plane

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 11:35:55 PM »
I must be cheap (ish) too... I use two chisels. The one that does the majority of the work is slightly wider than half the width of the socket, and then I have no qualms about plunging a 1/4" chisel into the socket corners to clean them out. You're obviously more hesitant to dig a wider chisel into the corners.
Regards, Jack.

pampine

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2012, 11:18:20 AM »
I am cheap! I use an eigth inch chisel to clean out my dovetail corners. Forget about two beveled edge chisels. Yes I cut corners and you can too, but only with an eigth inch chisel.

I like a slightly larger (6mm (1/4")) special Tasai Type 1 dovetail for those corners. Well, I wanted to post a photo here, but don't see a way. Here's a link:

http://japantool-iida.com/chisel_others/2008/05/special-dovetail-chisel-by-tas.html

Pam


Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2012, 08:37:38 PM »
Pam, Hi Thank you for the link. I have seen these and I do like them. Me being cheap I would go for the smallest one. But as I post this I could see where these could be useful in many circumstances

Jeff Saylor

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2012, 10:02:58 PM »
Talk about cheap, I use a reworked 50 cent rusty triangular file made into a chisel to clean out the dovetail corners.  I annealed it in my woodstove, filed it smooth, rehardened it and then tempered it to hold a good edge.   Works great!
Jeff Saylor
SAPFM #211  Hobbies include hunting, fishing, making furniture, searching for old tools at flea markets.

pampine

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2012, 10:03:27 PM »
You're welcome, Jeff. I only have the smallest one, and it does the jobs I need done; but I also have a 10mm (3/8") bachi nomi (fish, tail, also at that link as a custom chisel Tasai made me, but it was much cheaper years ago when I ordered it) that's come in very handy, too. In fact, I used it all the time on hidden dovetails before I got the 6mm type 1 chisel.

The only potential problem with the 6mm is that Tasai refused to make me a 6 mm bachi nomi because he had problems making the shank strong enough; so I'd stick with the quality makers, like Ouchi, Koyamaichi, Tasai, and anyone else high quality sold by Iida or Stu Tierney or Hida.

I'd also give LN a try if I were ordering today. Their fishtails are O1 and look real good, about half the price of the Japanese; but the smallest is 3/8".

Pam

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2012, 10:15:09 PM »
Today's economy could be like period joinery and sawing to the line. I am talking about the base line. The bottom of the dovetail.  The bottom line! Do you saw to the line or past the line. Which will produce the most proficient and expedient joinery and hold true over the years? If you saw to the line your joinery will look good but might take a little longer to produce. But who can say how well the internals fit. If you saw past the line then will it hold over the years? Do you want your joint to last? No matter what joint you produce there are always circumstances to challenge that joint. Will it hold up? Only the years will tell. What should we call pieces produced today Obamaethain or Elizabethain  or AMR   American External reflection all could be a Bushism. Romney, WV is only 20 miles West of Winchester, Virginia

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2012, 07:49:27 PM »
When cutting all of the drawer dovetails to fit a case.  I will use two cutting gauges. I am not cheap. One for the reach of the dovetail ( how far into the drawer front the tails reach) and one for the thickness of the drawer side( Depth of the drawer side thickness). This way I will not have to reset after each drawer layout.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 07:54:54 PM by Jeff L Headley »

Jack Plane

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2012, 08:19:45 PM »
I like my overshot saw cuts almost as much as the tight-fitting dovetails themselves. Their existence, fineness of cut and straightness/angularity speak volumes about the joinery. Plus, they're period correct.

For many years I have considered changing my forename by deed poll to 'George' so anything I make is genuinely Georgian.

I also use two individual (and very different) cutting gauges for the two marking procedures. The different looking gauges reduce the possibility of making mistakes.
Regards, Jack.

pampine

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2012, 02:22:13 AM »
I'm a little obsessive compulsive when it comes to my work (I used to develop software, loved writing stuff that ran perfectly the first time), so I saw to the line for dovetails. I know that for hidden dovetails it's historically correct to over shoot, but I can't bring myself to do that intentionally. Of course, I don't build period furniture right now, so I guess historical correctness isn't an issue.

Pam

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Dovetail
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2012, 11:06:46 PM »
Dovetails, mortise and tenons, glued rub joints for feet and case, it is all about surface to surface contact. No more no less!