Water-based dye on hammered veneer

A

abrown

Active member
I would like some advice from those who have used water-based dye over very thin, hammered veneer.

I've just hammered a 1/30" TM veneer onto a couple drawer fronts. I've scraped the glue off the surface, and would like to apply a Lockwood dye I've used previously on 4/4 TM with good results. I'm concerned that the dye may lift parts of the veneer, especially around the edges. For that reason alone I'm choosing not to "pre-raise" the grain.

I suppose that rather than brushing on, I could apply the dye sparingly with a cotton cloth. The surface areas are relatively small -- 3-1/2" x 14".

Would it be less risky to use a 1# cut of amber shellac over the TM, building it to the desired tone? The final finish (for drawer front and cherry table) will be 3-4 coats of an oil/varnish wipe.
Thanks,
Allan
 
Son-of-a-gun! This post has been read 51 times and no help! I'm hoping this wasn't a stupid question...

I did finally contact a friend in Seattle who restores antique pipe organs; he concurred that using a water-based dye on the veneer would entail some risk...

Off to mix shellac!
 
Allan,
It is more like 51 people didn't know either. that should be comforting. Do us all a favor and make a test piece, try it and report back. That is the best way to know for sure, too many variables otherwise.
Mike
 
Allan, I'm one of the 51 who doesnt know, and didnt reply because I havent yet dyed thin, hammered veneer. I will still stick my neck out with a reply.

If you try a test piece as Mike suggested, also try one with a dilute wash coat of shellac (1/4 lb) before applying the water based dye. Somebody probably taught me to do that but I don't remember who. At a midyear, others nodded that they do it too so it might be counterintuitive but it works.

I always apply dye to mahogany only after a shellac washcoat. It might retard the water reaching the glue or at least make you feel better about it!

I doubt room temp water will do much anyway.
John
 
John/Mike,
Well, I'm glad it wasn't a totally off-the-wall question. I contemplated a test piece, but opted instead to see if anyone else had the revealed wisdom. I'll do that in the next couple of days and let you know.

I had contemplated doing a shellac washcoat with the idea that it would retard the penetration of water to the glue plane, but with only 1/30" of an inch, I dunno...Too, I tend to agree that a little room temp H2O couldn't do much, but didn't have the cojones to actually try it. Again, the test piece will tell much...
Thanks,
Allan
 
Allan- I'm just speculating, but knowing how hard it is to get a piece of hammered veneer off if you want to move it ( I usually steam it off with a wet rag and an iron), I'm betting that if you put the stain on and wipe it off you won't do anything to your veneer. Hope I win the pool-Al
 
+1 for Al's opinion - I really, really doubt you're going to do anything to hide-glued veneer with water-based dye, so long as you're not flooding it on.  There's just not enough water in a very thin wiped or sprayed-on coat of dye to really cause an issue.  In fact, I think the biggest danger is that you might find a place where you didn't get the veneer glued to the substrate completely, as the small amount of moisture might cause the vneer to swell enough to cause a bubble.

But if it's glued down well, there's likely to be no issues.  I've tried this once, by the way, with no problems noted.  However, I discarded the water-based dyes shortly thereafter in preference to alcohol-based dyes, so I didn't repeat the experiment.
 
I did a small box with some really nice birds eye maple veneer.  I used liquid hide glue.  When I dyed the panel, it puckered up bit time!  The liquid hide may act differently though.  I would try an experiement to see.  I was able to iron out some of the ripples, but they wouldn't go away completely. 

Tony
 
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