Turning (Bow) Saw Blades

D

dkeller_nc

Well-known member
This is a question for Adam Cherubini and/or Mike Wenzloff,  but I welcome responses from anyone else that may have an opinion.  Thanks to Lee Richmond at The Best Things, I've been able to build a large set of antique hand tools to be able to make pieces entirely without electrons (except for lighting - candles are dangerous in a woodshop).

However, one problem that still vexes me is finding a proper turning saw blade.  I've a very nice antique that has the common throat dimension of 12", but I don't want to use the original (and antique) blade that comes with it.  The ones that Tools for Working Wood sells are not appropriate, as they're pinned coping saw blades - I need ones with holes.

The only new ones that I've been able to find were the Crown Tools offerings.  I find these to be uniformly awful performers - they generally need to be sharpened straight from the factory, and the set and teeth geometry are not appropriate.  The saw in use jumps and chatters fairly badly, and the blade gets very hot - the point of burned fingers if you touch it.  I would expect this if I was sawing a radius that was too tight for the blade, but these are gentle curves in moderately hard cabinet woods and soft secondary woods.

Not only that, the Crown Tools version is only available in 12" lengths, and I'd like to make a bow saw with about an 18" width of cut.

So - Does anyone have a better source for blades that are decent, and if that's not possible and I need to make my own out of 1095, does anyone have a suggested tooth geometry (tpi, cross or rip, amount of set, rake, fleam, etc..)
 
Hello, I have utilized; 1/4" band saw blade for years? over 40 anyway, just cut to any length,
I soften by heating. the end (3/8”) to make  soft enough for drilling, then reheat again  cooling in cooking oil, after drilling. Works very well? the cheapest ways are sometimes the best,that uses up any broken blades.

                                                            Joseph Hemingway
                                                              Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
Joe - I'll certainly give it a try, but my impression is that band-saw blades (at least the ones that I typically use) are a bit too aggressive for a hand saw.  Generally, these are skip-tooth 4 TPI blades.  Do you have a recommendation for tooth geometry/TPI  (i.e., hook or skip tooth, 4, 6, 8, 10 TPI)?
 
I had one I bought years ago from Highland Hardware.  12".  No blade but Wenzloff's are great out of the box.  It needed touching up.  No big deal tho. 

So the other day, I snapped it.  So i sheared off a piece of 1095- .025" and made a new blade.  Took all of about 15 minutes.  Maybe less.  I forget the exact stats on the teeth.  Send me a private email and I'll look for you.  It's pretty coarse.  It's rip and has a fair amount of set.  Check my blog comments.  I burned myself with this blade recently.  Not enough set. 

adam
 
All, Sorry but I'm not fussed ? what its TPI is? for I'm cutting wood not steel, if the timber is soft, I go for say? 3 TPI, this is good for rip cutting, but my 1/4"blades  are the same as my hand  saw: 7 TPI that is OK for: general use, and hardwood, don't be put off by the set or TPI? I've used a coping saw  many times to cut steel bolts,  when stuck for a hacksaw blade, its all down to attitude, I just save my broken blades I normally use in the shop,and pick from them, funnily they never seem brake  in the  bow saw frame, when dull?  I just make a new one, because its though away otherwise.
                                                                     Joseph hemingway
                                                                       Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
For turning saw blades, I use the widest one which will accomplish the turns needed. That way the slow curves are more faired. And there are times I have needed to switch blades and/or saws to do the tightest of curves.

For stock less than 7/8", I have a 10 tpi band saw blade and a slightly coarser one. The 10 tpi is an 1/8" wide, the other is 3/16" (I think it is an 8 tpi). These are recycled blades from my small, 12" band saw.

I have a bow saw that also has coarser, wider blades. Those blades I have made myself from the same strip steel we use for saws. I have some 1" wide steel that I take down to about 3/8" to 1/2" when punched. These are coarser yet blades for longer, slower curves. Those two I have are 3/8" wide and 6 ppi, and a 1/2" 5 ppi. Why the difference? Just because. I like the 3/8" blade the best.

The recycled blades are made from 0.016" steel, the ones I made are from 0.018" thick steel. I sharpen the blades I made with a little fleam, about 2 degrees or so with maybe 4 degrees of rake. Just makes them easier to saw at the expense of a little speed.

The band saw blades I do hit with a file. A BS blade has a positive hook (forward leaning teeth). Basically because of the finer toothing, I merely make them to zero rake at the tip. And again, a little fleam simply because, well, I doubt I can hand file absolutely straight across.

I drill the blades for small pins. On the 1/8" and 3/16" BS blades, I do heat them a little to soften them, but I never reharden the blades. For the others, because they are qider blades, I simply drill them with the same carbide drill bits we use to drill the hand saw steel blades.

Like Adam says, turning saws need a bit of set, considerably more than for a back or hand saw. However, on the thin, narrow blades, I don't bother as they still have allowed enough clearance to do the work I have needed.

Now days, I find little time for woodworking. So they are packed away. The specs above are to the best of my recall, but I can hunt them down if needed. Of course, might be easier to simply make another. You haven't seen my attic storage...

Take care, Mike
 
Mike?  I'm sorry your end with?    Now days, I find little time for woodworking.

        I'm not surprised? possible your spending to much time? creating what you can buy for little cost.
One more thing?  If the broken blade? Cut OK? in the Band saw, Pray tell me why it would not in a bow saw frame?
And lastly? I cool the blade in cooking oil to stop the end holes (elongating in use) and failing?(which did happen before I cured the problem)
Personally my preference is working the wood.
more than saw doctoring.
                                                       
                                                            Joseph Hemingway
                                                                Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
Hi Joseph,

Making tools for others to use seems to consume most of my time. An ironic situation, I suppose. Still, I cannot fathom filling my days better. Once I get a tad more caught up, I will be back to more woodworking. And, it isn't that I do none--just far less than once upon a time.

A typical electrical band saw is simply a powered pull saw. But, it *is* powered by an electrical motor powering wheels which have mass. This, by "brute force" pulls the blade through the work. When using a blade of the same geometry, the human power must accomplish the same. While it can be done (and obviously you and others--and even myself have used them as is), an aggressively hooked BS blade used in a frame is not as an efficient of tooth design as one made for use by human power.

As to the holes, I suspect I am simply not annealing the blade to the same degree you are. Just enough to allow the bit to drill without danger of the steel cracking.

Take care, Mike
 
Mike, you are a saw doctor? Sorry for thinking differently?(we are in SAPFM) with your answer's? I got the impression you were.
One thing? My blades usually brake on the weld? but sometimes on a cracked guilt, leaving me with a comparatively new (but broken blade), when I select a piece to use in my bow saw? Its as New?  no need any attention but cutting and drilling.  Just to put things correctly.

                                                                                  Joseph Hemingway
                                                                                    Sharing the tricks of the trade
 
Hi Joseph,

I'm a once upon a time furniture maker (among other trades during my life). Now, I make saws and other widgets. When time permits, also saw doctoring (mostly for current/past customers due to lack of time).

Since this business began I have joined the ranks of hobby woodworkers once again. Some actual woodworking happens--though projects seem to languish on assembly tables at the shop or hidden in corners of my home awaiting my return to them.

Take care, Mike
 
Thanks, all, for the advice.  I think I'm going to take Mike's route for the immediate need - it's just a lot quicker to go across town and pick up a thin 8 or 10 tpi blade and cut it up for the turning saw.  For the longer term, I think I'm going to try Adam's method with the 1095 steel.  I figure it gives me good practice for filing the teeth on my expensive dovetail saws, and if I mess up a strip of 1095, it's no big deal - just get another and try again.
 
If you get a carbon steel bandsaw blade that didn't have impulse hardened teeth with the proper tpi you could refile the teeth to remove the hook or create whatever you want for a tooth configuration. I would think it easier than starting from scratch. If you go to a place that makes up blades they will sell you a length.
mike
 
David,

Don't know if you ever found or made a blade for your bowsaw but I've been looking for a 24" one myself to make a longer bowsaw (already have a good 12" saw). Traditional Woodworker carries a couple different blades that may work for you. They have wide crosscut and ripping blades and also 3/16" (I think) turning saw blades. I think they carry two different brands, one about $9 and the other about $10. I considered making one myself for the saw I want to build but it's hard to make one for that price. Just another option.

Bob
 
Bob - I never did get a replacement blade for my turning saw (too many other things going on in the shop), but it's good to know I can get a 24", narrow blade.  Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they have a 12" size.

My plan at this point is sacrifice an inexpensive 7-10 tpi bandsaw blade, skip tooth configuration.  My guess is that tooth geometry will perform a bit better in a handsaw than will a hook-tooth.  If I cna get ahold of a small piece of 0.020 spring sheet steel, I may try to make one.  I haven't exactly figured out how I'm going to shear it off without a press brake, but I figure I might could do it by scoring with a file and breaking it off in a vise.  Failing that, I may take it to a machine shop and get them to make 20 or so blanks at one time.
 
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