snipe bill plane

macchips4

Well-known member
    I was upstate this weekend and was poking around an antique shop that had some hand tools. They had a pair of old snipe bill planes nice shape no rust sharp blades and they matched. they were priced at 100.00. I kept looking around eventually left. I had thought about them all day and night- I should have at least asked about them.....The next day I was in that shop again and the shop owner had just sold them before I arrived. Dang!
  I have not seen many at all not even on ebay and then they go for good money... Should I be kicking my self? would it have been a reasonable price for such a rare pair of planes? and more importatly would they be as useful as to be "i wish I had a set"?
Joe
 
Probably a pretty good price if they were in decent shape. Patrick Leach's October sale list came out today and he has a pair by Mosley and Sons at SuperTool.com for $140. Looked to be in good shape.
 
If you want an antique pair, you could also call Lee Richmond at The Best Things.  He often has inventory that he's not yet photographed and put on his website.

If you want a new set, Matt Bickford makes and sells these, as well as Old Street Tools.

A couple of observations about snipe bills:  They're useful for sinking "quirks" in moldings made with hollows and rounds.  But their use is more limited than H&Rs and rabbet planes, so if you don't have those yet, they're the ones to buy first.  Also, snipe's bill's condition are more difficult to judge from an on-line picture than other planes.  They're often warped along the length of the sole, which renders them unusable.  Because of the sharp point that the sole tapers into, it's often not possible to straighten the sole by removing wood as one might do with a warped rabbet plane.

Also, it's not really necessary to have them be matched pairs the way one wants for Hollows and Rounds.  The left and right pair are used independently on different parts of the molding, so as long as both are true (straight) and not heavily worn, a user set need not be a matched pair.
 
I wound up bidding and winning some planes off ebay....135.00, They included a pair of Moseley snipes bill planes. I was very excited because they do not come up too often and when they do.. they are expensive. I recieved them yesterday.
   Problem is one of the pair is in good condition, straight and no warp, the other has a 1/8 warp in the body and also a 1/8 in "rocker" along the pointed boxing. There are a few chips in the boxing but nothing too broken that can't be dealt with.
  When trying them out the one plane tracks ..ok in pine and cherry (for not being sharpened-just out of the "box"). While the warped one has a struggle to maintain a scribed line. I could see it would be a "b...." to plane a moulding 3-4 ft long!
SO... Question.. Keep and use for patterns to make new ones, or return and start a new quest.
  500.00 is hefty right now for a new set.
Thanks in advance for any replies/ideas
Joe
 
Which one is in good shape. I have one that I call a left as it goes in the "wrong" direction. If you have the right in decent condition what would you take for it? for the pair?
 
Mike,
    I have contacted the seller, if He would be in agreement to take them back (i Pay postagre of course). I paid 120.00 plus the postage. there are two beading planes, one is slightly warped, and the pair of snipes bills, one is warped and "rockered" (is that a description?) I was thinking that I could use them as patterns to make new but I don't know if there use would warrant the time to do so at this point at my "skill level" If that makes any sense. I was influenced by The DVD by Don McConnell and hearing how scarce thay are. I would try my hand. Right now I have a mish mosh of planes picked up at fea markets etc. But Certainlly far from a "set of hollows and rounds" more like 2or 3 of different sizes one or two pairs. I'm rambling. So I'l stop.
Joe
 
Joe has discovered the problems that afflict most vintage side escapement planes. Almost all are "rockered," as he put it. That is, the sole is highest at the toe and heel, and lowest at the bed, so they "rock" forward and backward, like a rocking horse. This is a pain, and fixable, but takes some work. Most are also curved front to back, and will "rock" when the plane is placed on its blind side. This is a much bigger pain, and likely fatal for a snipes bill. Hollows and rounds can be straightened by careful planing on both sides to bring them parallel. Unfortunately you end up with a hollow or round that cuts less than a 60 degree arc. If you tried to plain a warped snipes bill flat, you likely wouldn't have enough tool left to be usable.

After you've done all that work, the price planemakers currently charge doesn't look so bad.

Making your own planes isn't all that hard, but start with something simple. Snipes bills are not simple.
 
    My goal is to be able to produce moldings in whatever wood species the furniture piece is made of and to make the furniture using a minimum of power toools. eg crown on a highboy.
    I know I'm faw away from starting such a large piece but I thought these planes were needed After watching the Mc Connell DVD. That being said and the seemingly scarcity of useable snipes bill planes, am I being obsessive in this "quest"? Are they that nessesary to produce moldings?
   What price range should a striaght , unwarped pair of snipes bill planes can be expected?
 
macchips4 said:
    My goal is to be able to produce moldings in whatever wood species the furniture piece is made of and to make the furniture using a minimum of power toools. eg crown on a highboy.
    I know I'm faw away from starting such a large piece but I thought these planes were needed After watching the Mc Connell DVD. That being said and the seemingly scarcity of useable snipes bill planes, am I being obsessive in this "quest"? Are they that nessesary to produce moldings?
   What price range should a striaght , unwarped pair of snipes bill planes can be expected?
    Maybe as dkeller-nc had posted, it would be better to assemble a set of hollow and rounds etc, first and then see how it goes...... rambling again.
 
You can make a huge variety of mouldings without snipes bills (and side rounds). But like most specialty tools, when you need one, you need one. While you might get lucky on ebay, I really think you need to be able to handle the plane yourself and see if it is up to snuff. Or, purchase one from a reputable dealer that will let you return it if it won't do the job for which it is intended.

Buying snipes bills isn't like buying a number 5 or a bench chisel, which can always be made to work.

I have no idea what the price for a useable pair might be. I think you do need to factor in your time, and shipping costs back and forth, and maybe, like Mike, having one good plane and then looking for a mate. I went through this looking for a good saw vise, until someone finally came out with an excellent new one. I spent more in total on crappy old ones before I bought an expensive new one, which works perfectly.
 
If you keep looking you'll find some. since they do not generally have to mesh you can get away with an unmatched set. Having said that though I like having a matched set. I'm a number 10 hollow away from a full half set of hollows and rounds.

I'll dig through my boxes of planes in the next few days and see if I have any and let you know. Send me an email (through my profile) of what else your looking for I may have it. I have lots of matched pairs of hollows and rounds.
 
macchips4 said:
macchips4 said:
    My goal is to be able to produce moldings in whatever wood species the furniture piece is made of and to make the furniture using a minimum of power toools. eg crown on a highboy.
    I know I'm faw away from starting such a large piece but I thought these planes were needed After watching the Mc Connell DVD. That being said and the seemingly scarcity of useable snipes bill planes, am I being obsessive in this "quest"? Are they that nessesary to produce moldings?
   What price range should a striaght , unwarped pair of snipes bill planes can be expected?
     Maybe as dkeller-nc had posted, it would be better to assemble a set of hollow and rounds etc, first and then see how it goes...... rambling again.

I have snipe bill planes in good condition but don't use them the way Don does.  While his technique is interesting, effective, and likely authentic, I'm not sure he would agree that this is the ONLY way to make moldings.  What I'm trying to say is, keep an eye out for a set but don't feel you have to have a set of snipe bills to make moldings.

Adam 
 
Thanks everyone for the posts and replies!
    I did wind up getting a lower price/partial refund on the purchased planes...can't complain about the seller he was very good about it. So I have one fairly good snipe and one for making circular mouldings - patterns to make a new ones (yea when I have time).
    I looked at the other planes on my shelf , If they are not marked with a number how are they measured? is it the width of the cut? Is a number 4 from one maker the same as a number 4 from another? and would a number 5 from a third maker be the"next size"? Was the numbering system standardized?
    I have a mish-mosh of about 15 planes - hollow,rounds complex,etc - but only 2 actual pairs of the same arc and maker. Some are nice some are just for looks.
    Should this be a new topic/thread? Well off to work and the quest continues!
Joe
 
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