How do YOU, do a complex glue-up?

David Conley

Well-known member
Everyone,

Time to start another fun discussion.

How do YOU, do a complex glue-up?  Specifically, one that has lots of mortise & tenon joints.  What preparation do you do before the glue-up operation starts?  What types of glues do you use, and what types would you avoid?  Do you glue all of the joints at the same time, or in stages? 

I glued up the Carlyle Lynch’s Virginia Side Table all at once.  But, my current table design has 3 drawers and a double set of tenons on the sides and back (external panel for show, internal tenons for structural strength), and 3 sets of drawers.  All total, I am looking at about 34 individual glue joints out of 52 joints. 

The front and back panels have to be assembled before the side panels.  There are 8 glue joints in the front, 8 glue joints (and another 4 dry fit joints) in the back, and another 18 glue joints (and another 14 dry fit joints) for the sides.  (See attached photo of leg joints.  Front legs on outside and back legs in center).

So, how would you glue up this monster?

Thanks,
David


 

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David,

This is why I love Old Brown Glue from Patrick Edwards. The open time is about 20 mins sometimes more depending on room temperature.  All the benefits of hide glue with more open time. I am not a fan of Titebond hide glue, just to many additives that can break down the glue. 

Best of luck.

Cheers,

FR
 
Freddy,

Thanks for the input!!  I was hoping to hear from a few other, including Jeff with his Elmer’s Glue-All.

My plan was to use Old Brown Glue and glue up the front and back, and dry fit the sides.  Then secure it with band clamps.  If I needed to move something, I would do that with a bar clamp.  The next day, I would glue up the sides with the same band clamps.

Also, I like the idea of gluing up the front and back first, and not the whole case.  That way, I would have more time to adjust the joints before the glue sets up.  Not to mention, fewer joints, and all in the same direction, in case I need to dissemble and reassemble something. 

Thanks again,
David
 
David:

You have an expert in your area regarding complex glue ups. David Boeff has a number of videos on YouTube that are about as complex as they get. He is a member of the Ohio Chapter and I'm sure you know him.

David Turner
North Raleigh
 
David,

A side table sounded initially like an easy glue-up...then I looked at all the mortises in your table legs (oof) and thought again!  I'm a wimp when gluing up, especially after a rough time a couple winters ago using hot hide glue.  I generally try to glue up sub-elements separately, provided I can get good confidence that I'm not introducing square-ness errors.  On a side chair, for example, I'll glue the left half and right half separately, then add the front/back rails/shoe/splat/crest rail, possibly as a second glue-up (though best to treat it as phase 2 of the same glue-up, again to ensure it all comes together squarely).  I'd take the same approach on your tea table.  What do you think of that approach?

I'm pretty much a dedicated hide glue user.  In addition to open time of the cold hide glue, I like that it lubricates the joint (as does the hot stuff, until it gels, leading to what I've previously described as a "rough time"). My shop gets cold in winter so I pretty much eschew the hot stuff in that season (though I should try again next winter, with it more thinned out - that's what Bill Pavlak told me they do at CW when working in colder weather).  But a joint with gelled hide glue on it is recoverable, whereas a seized-up joint partly assembled with the white stuff pretty well trashes all the hard work.
 
David,
Sorry for the slow response.
Looking at your first enquiry and your pictured tenons.
You have to many tenons.
Just concentrate on your outer case tenons.
You have tenons for an upper kick strip (not needed just nailed) and then a mortise for a drawer bearer which should also just be nailed in (not glued, so it can be replaced or restored in the future.
No matter what glue you use segment your glue up and dry fit all other joints to keep uniform and square. Then glue up in steps
 
I don't frequent this site often so maybe this is to late.  First-  way to many mortises like the previous post says.  Totally overbuilt and un-needed.  But, the glue is up is easy with any glue if done in parts.  I would probably do each side, let set, then front and back, or maybe front and back first.  The comments about glue-  of course being in the trade and wanting reversibility is great, but seriously, by the time it needs to gets fixed you will be dead and gone....over analyzed, over thought.....keep it simple. 
 
Everyone,  

I think I need to describe the double set of tenons on the legs.   The top & bottom, inside set will be glued for the structural strength of the table.  Only the top tenon of the outside 3 tenons set (for the mahogany side and back panels) will be glued.  The lower two mahogany tenons will be dry fitted.

I am now planning to do the glue up in two stages.  The first will be to do the front and back panels separately.  The second glue up will be connecting the sides to the front and back panels.

I will be using a slow setting glue, like Old Brown Glue, or Elmers.

Jeff, I will now nail in the kick strip.  I was planning on gluing in the bottom drawer runners as part of the structural frame.  The outside mahogany panels are 1/2" thick, and are for show.  I was also planning on gluing just the front joints of the middle and top drawers.  Also, I off centered the ash drawers runner about 1/16" proud to the top side.  That way, my cockbead will not contact the drawer blades (at least at first).

I agree with the comments about it being over engineered.  But, that has been one of the fun parts about working on this piece.  

I have not done anything on this table since I did the post back in June.  I have been spending my time with my son and helping him earn his Boy Scout's Woodworking Merit Badge, and getting us ready, and attending  the National Jamboree.  After getting back, I just finished my "honey-do" list this morning, and cleaning off my workbench to restart this project.

Thanks for all the help!!!
David


 
Everyone,

I have been thinking a lot about what everyone has been saying about the tenons. 

I finally did a dry fit and all of those tenons are were a pain.  With glue, it will be 10 time worst.  Based on suggestions, I decide to change the entire structural design of the sides.  I am going to add vertical ash stiles to the top and bottom ash rails so that I can cut a shallow 1/8" dados to hold my drawer runners.  Now the side design is basically two boards, a thin outer "show" board and an inner (pre-glued frame) structural board. 

Thanks,
David
 
David,
I wood ad a drawer guide between the outer cavity on the inside of either side between the front and back legs in the inner section for each drawer. These pieces will quite often need to be hand planed to fit front and back. Then glue once fit. Tack the drawer bearer in and then set nails once the drawer has been fits properly. Bearers need to replaced or flipped over in the future to bear properly. Grrr
 
My "Jeff Headley" side panels. This eliminated 12 M&T joints.  ;D  Thanks Jeff!!!!

The side included glue on the top and bottom ash M&T and just the top M&T of the mahogany side "show" panel.  The middle and bottom mahogany M&T joints are dry fit and design to move within the joint with the changes in moisture.  This was real easy to put together. 
 

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