Approaches to Matching Mahogany

J

jdavis

Well-known member
Hypothetically speaking of course, lets say one were to spend 3 or more years goofing around on one piece of furniture. The still unfinished parts completed first would be well darkened whereas the most recent parts would be light.
Should I, ahhhh, I mean someone in this position,  use oxidizers, or dyes, or would garnet shellac  and dark wax help the light pieces catch up? I know we've discussed these before but I dont recall if we talked about approaches for matching.

Thanks,
John
 
John,

Tell your "friend" to try lightly sanding the darkened areas.  I've tried this and it seems to work pretty good.

Dennis Bork
 
I like the buttonlac for color on mahogany(and walnut,too), and a little extra here, a little less there and it will end up that nice golden-amber. If the pieces of wood themselves are radically different color from being from different trees, then an oxidizer will send it all toward the dark red, with maybe a bit extra used on the lighter timbers to even it up.
But a fine case piece, I would imagine you have used all the same stuff for, and just the buttonlac looks nice, I think. And if the fellow is as slow at the french polish as building, it will even up as he works.
Even if you did not use all pieces matching, I would bet the fellow can still remember which parts really were cut from different trees and might need extra darkening. If I used all consecutive matching boards, I would be confident with some light sanding/shellac/time.
 
John- Tell your friend that I would wait another three years and let he rest catch up.

If you, I mean, he, wanted to get on with it right away I'd oxidize the new areas with potassium dichromate. Make a base with two teaspoons per cup and dilute from there.

I'd have to disagree with Dennis on the sanding. I've known people who've taken  a while to finish a piece and I, I mean they, tried to lighten the other areas by sanding with disastrous results. The depth of the oxidation is such that to avoid a cloudy, shaded look you really have to take everything down a lot to reach new wood that will match the later work.

Sometimes exposing the new work to the sun will add a few shades of color, but it's a bit tricky and probably won't get you where you want to go.

Mind the falling cabinets. From the frozen North-Al
 
The potassium dichromate will need to be really diluted from that base;  I usually mix up about 2 teaspoons in a half gallon of water and it has a pretty dramatic effect. I think this mixture will still be a bit "heavy handed" for evening age effects. I might try a teaspoon in a gallon first. Also it is a bit difficult to control if you are trying to darken one piece that is joined to another-such as a leg to chair rail; since it is water based it wants to leach from one piece to the next. Just some notes of caution. I also like to put in on outside; to get away from the fumes, yes, but also I think the sun supercharges that oxidation- it just seems that way to me.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. More are welcome. The parts are still parts so I wont have the leaching problem. There's a bunch of carving so I'm going to reserve the sanding idea for another project.
John
 
John, I have many projects that take a few years to complete!!!, Not by choice but things happen. I have also had good luck with potassium Bi or Di chromate depending on how many molecules of chromate you desire(no don't listen anymore run away quickly) It has been known as a carcinogenic, So don't drink it or let any be absorbed though your skin. Wear a mask and blow the dust away from you while you sand. Please don't eat a turkey sandwich while doing this. You will need to wet the surface with water first, to raise the grain. There are a few things to consider while using chemicals when building or finishing furniture. The amount chemical dissolved in water and the amount of time you let the solution stay on the wood wet make a big difference in color. I would not recommend it on walnut, Just cherry and mahogany if you are determined to use it. You can shade with aniline dyes. Or you could sell the piece to me in the condition it is in. Wouldn't you like to just dispose of it now and not mess with all of those nasty chemicals. I will even come and pick it up it being the Christmas season. I would like to have David Conley stamped somewhere on the case though.
 
Oh, I meant to ad try buffing your carvings with a stiff bristle fiber brush instead of sanding. Works well for me. Of course you can always dispose of it now before the finish. Just thought I would throw that out again. You know cabinetmakers need to stick together and help support each other.
 
Thanks Jeff,
What does the stiff brush do? I have some glossy burnishing from the gouge on some curved surfaces that I expect would affect the finish absorption. Would the brush help that? (50 Grit seems to remove it but that may be overkill even for my work.)  Does it remove any small facets if they really shouldnt be there? Do you use the brush after the grain raising? Is that sufficient?

Can I just drop off the table for you and Steve to work your magic, and then pick it up a few weeks later? I would never forget your support. You could sign it. If I could add my name to yours and Dave's, I'd own the moon. John
 
msiemsen said:
I have heard that the David Conley stamp adds resale value.
Click to expand...

I don't know why - all the stuff that I've stamped his name on seems fairly primitive.  Somehow I expected a better outcome.
 
John                                                                                                                                            I run in to this problem often, tables that sit in the sun and leaves that sit in the closet .Now after 3yrs picking away at this thing, your friend, probably has had enough sanding ,grain raising, and using toxic chemicals that are  only cool until the the first kid bits in to it. Unlike most in sapfm,I don't own the things I work on,meaning if I make a mistake, I here about it. What I would do is to stain first,[or leave natural] then seal coat the piece.Now you [they] can see the true colors you [they] have to work with or shoot for. Matching to a darker is always easier. Using shellac, you can add a little dye stain to the shellac and french polish it out, or if the area is small French Patch it out. Now the most important part about this method is that if you or your friend make a mistake,you simply add a little alcohol to the rag and wipe it off and try again. No sanding,toxic chems, and you get unlimited trys to get it right.Oh ya,for the carvings,if you use small amounts of dye [very small] you can tone the piece with a brush
 
I've got a simpler solution.
Don't do anything, just finish the piece.
If all the wood is more or less the same density and porosity, the color of the various pieces will all even out with time. If your wood is from the same board or sequential boards this is likely.
Certainly if you have some denser (usually darker) wood, this will end up darker no matter what you do (unless you stain the lighter wood). But good luck on trying to even out the colors. If you use a relatively dark stain you can get everything more or less even (dark), but if you are looking for a reddish-brownish natural mahogony color it will be very hard to even out the pieces.
Dichromate will darken everything, maybe more or less evenly, but it is, in my opinion, it is very dark, not like a natural mahogony color.

Howard Steier
 
First let me say I do agree with Howard. If the wood is similar then it will shade evenly given time, most likely, with that said wood is wood. We today, are trying to run a period business,( in my dreams) so we have to get pieces ready for delivery by a certain date. So we need an even color when we deliver it and down the road. Our best customers are clients we have already worked for so down the road can be quite a long time. We want to send out the best pieces we possibly can.
My family always called it potash and we called it burning the wood. I was told it was a period coloring process. I do know that  it will even out differences in similar pieces of wood worked out at different times. A light coat from a light amount dissolved in water will give a light effect and maybe less harmful personally, but with that said an aniline dye works well also. Finishes are so personal. You want a base color, brown, red, or black depending on what the customer wants and then shade from there. The ways of shading are as numerous as finishes itself. I would stay away from oil stains. They are paints thinned down and will obscure grain. Occasionally that can be a good thing though. When someone comes up with the perfect finish that needs no additions I will except it and will change it to suit my needs. Speaking from 200 years+ 
 
Thanks All. Great contributions and I'm sure I can put some of them to good use.  I think it was John McAlister who said he doesnt even buy green bananas any more.... Similarly, I know my Customer doesnt want to wait til its naturally uniform. Her opinion is extremely important to me because she fixes my breakfast every morning and has done many other nice things for the last 35 years. I'll break out some chemicals and see what happens. Finally, I know that David Conley has a good sense of humor and I look forward to buying him a cold one at CW! Sorry... One more "finally"... Jeff, you don't look 200+ years old!
John
 
I have to agree with R Bohn and his approach.  The LAST thing I would do is put a chemical on it.  Go get some analine dyes.  Work up a color you like that will go on the lighter wood.  Thin down that color for the darker areas or pull some of the color off with a damp rag if it gets to dark.  Put some shellac on to see what it looks like then if things need to be altered, pad on some alcohol stain in shellac that is very thinned.  It is not that hard really.   
 
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